You really think so, JV?

49,500 scripts per year equal crap. 500 scripts per year equal not crap.

I'm not quite that cynical. I'll bet there are over a thousand good to great scripts penned every year.

By the way guys, my article made the IMBD hitlist. Yay!

Hello Edsas,

I read your article regarding Spec Arena and I think this would be a good idea. A great help to the spec script writer and anybody looking for one.

I have a query with the scoring, though… If you’re a writer and your script doesn’t cut it, is there any reporting or feedback supplied other than the scoring. Otherwise – how do you learn if you don’t know the mistakes. Or… maybe this will hinder participants to join having to supply this. MMmmmm.

Also, can you elaborate (just for me) what you mean by:

Also, because so many jobs rely upon the success of a script that is (often reluctantly) turned into a movie, the readers are set up as gatekeepers with the instructions to never let anything through that could damage anybody's career.

This is interesting…??

Would you be willing to actually put yourself behind the drivers wheel of something like this? It is a good idea. Would it include loglines or synopsisssesses segregated into maybe genre’s or something along those lines? And the main question – would there be costs involved?

Penelope.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Penelope,

Hey edsas,

I just read your article. I had the exact same idea several months ago. I was calling it THE GREAT SCRIPT WAREHOUSE. You put a lot more thought into than I did. Great article. Count me in.

Troy

Makes me wonder how many other screenwriters have thought of it, Troy. Maybe it's just a matter of time.

If I had the extra time and money, I'd snap to it and put the site together, but I have neither at the moment. (Especially with my third child on the way -- forgot to mention that little project.)

Wow! Congrats! I must be way older than you. My third was born in '92. I'm looking forward to the day when they're all moved out. I know what you mean about extra time and money. Something most of probably need.

It is amazing how much crap you have to weed through. The people that said InkTip is the same thing are crazy. Jerrol doesn't read scripts. He just collects $40 for each. The more the merrier. I think it would be really cool, and if writers see it as kind of a contest to get their script through, then they'd really try hard to submit their very best work.

There's nothing wrong with writing a bad script. But people should at least recognize one when they see one. It amazes me how many people will argue that their shitty script is the best thing since Chinatown. It's like the singers that we all laugh at auditioning for American Idol.

quote:

Originally posted by Penelope:

I have a query with the scoring, though… If you’re a writer and your script doesn’t cut it, is there any reporting or feedback supplied other than the scoring. Otherwise – how do you learn if you don’t know the mistakes. Or… maybe this will hinder participants to join having to supply this. MMmmmm.

Well, the main idea is to filter out the "unworthy" which is in the neighborhood of 90% of all spec scripts. I realize that's a harsh way to look at art, but it's true. I wouldn't show my first 3 scripts to anyone. Talent evolves. But the way the writers who don't make the cut learn from their mistakes is reading the scripts and the coverage of those scripts which do make the cut.

quote:

Also, can you elaborate (just for me) what you mean by:

Also, because so many jobs rely upon the success of a script that is (often reluctantly) turned into a movie, the readers are set up as gatekeepers with the instructions to never let anything through that could damage anybody's career.

This is interesting…??

Yeah, the reason it's so tough to get past script readers (who are often times reasonable people and movie-lovers to boot) is that their bosses set sometimes impossibly high standards out of fear of greenlighting a turkey. Imagine yourself a studio exec. Your job is to find one or two movies a year for your studio to make, which directly reflect the performance of the studio head. So there's a lot of pressure from the very beginning.

Let's say you, as a studio exec, decide to back two scripts. Here are some of the possible outcomes:

Both scripts turn into hit movies. Congratulations! You've bought yourself another two or three years at the studio.

One script is a hit movie, the other just breaks even. Good job, but do a little better next time.

Both scripts produce movies that break even. Hmmm, let's look over your contract, shall we? Looks like you owe us one more picture. It'd better be good.

One script produces a hit, the other produces a bomb. Whoa, you're a bit of a loose cannon, aren't you? Sheesh! Let's have another hit next year bucko, or it's time to review your contract.

One script produces a movie that breaks even, the other is a bomb. Nice knowing you. I think they're hiring over at "B-Movie Productions".

Both scripts produce bombs. Time for a new career field.

So, see the pattern? Being a studio exec means you pretty much have to hit a homerun every time you step up to the plate or you get canned. It's a career with an insane amount of turnover which creates an insane amount of pressure to not fail which, in turn, creates a lot of second-guessing and doubt. All this pressure is channeled from the execs to the script readers who in turn feel their own pressure to please their boss. If a reader recommends a script that the boss doesn't like, fine. Just do a better job next time. If a reader does it several time, that's cause for dismissal. The reader obviously doesn't "get" the studio exec. So the easiest way for a reader to retain job security is by not recommending anything which isn't absolutely flawless, which is almost never.

So there you go. It's all about the search for perfection weighed against job security from the top of the chain all the way to the bottom.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: edsas,

Just out of curiosity - and on a completely different tract - is the B-Movie industry the same as (***horns blow, angels sing, confetti falls from the sky***) THE MOVIE INDUSTRY except in terms of finances and production values? What I mean is, is it every bit as difficult to get a script accepted for review by, say... Roger Corman's production company, as it is to get one accepted for consideration by Stephen Spielberg's company? Like I said, just curious, as you never hear about all the screenwriters with second-tier (B-movie) careers.

Hey Thanks Edsas,

I understand a little more now about that process. I agree that there requires a lot of dirt removal to find that tiny piece of gold – but I believe that there’s more gold out there in that 95% of dirt that’s been mentioned here. I wouldn’t know, I just believe. So, this idea is something to jump at for a spec writer. Would you take this on with the help of others with you. To watch this grow and see work being purchased would be an awesome self satisfying feeling of helping others – on both sides of this fence.

Your comment about the scoring…… Okay, I get that and wouldn’t that be great. Learning is the best thing in the world. But if a spec writer is new (as there always seems to be plenty of these) initially, would they be up to scratch with what they’re reading to score fairly? So we all have to wait for the learning experience to settle in and grow before getting more accurate results. Then once that happens – the experience or knowledge would or may then take them to other places.

Anyway – above is a very small part of the whole equation. This is a wonderful idea and it’s certainly a great place for the readers to go and find their gold. It’s also a place for spec writers to go and read and learn and also submit their work. So, it would HAVE to be a good thing.


Troy….. I get emails and updates from InkTip and I’ve often wondered about what you’ve mentioned here. There’s heaps of information. But I was never under the impression that they were readers. Are they supposed to be? Wouldn’t that make it all so much better. I just assume that the price was only for the placement. Then if someone reads and likes what you have – then bonus. They’re always mentioning the writers that have been picked up – or the scripts that have movement. They also have details on what people are specifically looking for in a script. But I’m a little bit of a sceptic and I don’t always believe what I’m told. Do you place your work here? Would you suggest to anybody else to place their work here?

I also get emails from a site – “withoutabox”. It’s a different type of thing but I have the same feelings about it. Do you know of this and what do you think?

Thanks guys – I love picking your brains and I love the chattin’. It’s all good.

Penelope.

quote:

Originally posted by Troy:
Wow! Congrats! I must be way older than you. My third was born in '92.

Thanks, Troy! Yep, I graduated from high school in '92. Didn't start having kids until 2002.

Just curious, is filmmaking a second career for you or have you been at it for a long time?

quote:

Originally posted by MJLangface:
Just out of curiosity - and on a completely different tract - is the B-Movie industry the same as (***horns blow, angels sing, confetti falls from the sky***) THE MOVIE INDUSTRY except in terms of finances and production values? What I mean is, is it every bit as difficult to get a script accepted for review by, say... Roger Corman's production company, as it is to get one accepted for consideration by Stephen Spielberg's company? Like I said, just curious, as you never hear about all the screenwriters with second-tier (B-movie) careers.

Yes, it's infinitely easier to get a B-Movie deal than it is a major studio gig. For example, I've been flirting off and on with some independent producers with a decent track record of getting stuff made. They want to hire me to write an idea of theirs from scratch. I'm tempted. The only problem is, I'm a guild member and I know they can't afford me. There are some ways around that, but they continue to contact me with low offers and I'm thinking about telling them to forget it.

If the same thing was going on with a major studio or known production company (for guild rates, of course), I'd be doing backflips to sign the contract.

So, in short, the B-movie industry is in a completely different galaxy from the majors. But, these small guys are a fantastic way to get a career moving. Never dismiss an opportunity out of hand.

quote:

Originally posted by Penelope:

Your comment about the scoring…… Okay, I get that and wouldn’t that be great. Learning is the best thing in the world. But if a spec writer is new (as there always seems to be plenty of these) initially, would they be up to scratch with what they’re reading to score fairly? So we all have to wait for the learning experience to settle in and grow before getting more accurate results. Then once that happens – the experience or knowledge would or may then take them to other places.

I think you would need to do it in such away that the script selections were not entirely random. Plus, I set up a safeguard in that the first round of judging produces no commentary. The readers simply select scores. And because there are three judges, an incompetent judge who gives bad marks across the board would be cancelled out by the other two judges if the script is truly good enough to make it into the database. If a script only needs 400 points to make it in and a single reader can award up to 500, then all good scripts should make it in. Of course, there will always be ones to fall through the cracks.

Hey there Edsas,

Good point. The other judges would 'settle the score', wouldn't they. I love this idea. I think it's a very kind and well thought out procedure. You've obviously spent some brain space here to think of something that would work and all of it is for others (maybe yourself included as well) but it does include everyone. Good on ya. You obviously have a good heart pumpin' away there. Another good heart that I've chatted to... thanks for that.


Hey Troy,

I was keen as well as you to know about the 'B-Movie Industry'. As Edsas says, it could be the way to go to get your name in the black book of 'Names', if you know what I mean. It ISN'T something you hear about - but I'm sure those people are happy with themselves for what they do or have done. Anything in the industry, any work or contact and even conversation (like what we have here) are all good. It all has to help somehow. Even if it takes years, but there may be that one day where you think to yourself - Oh yeah, I remember 'this' or I remember 'them' or I was told 'this' once.

Penelope.

quote:

Just curious, is filmmaking a second career for you or have you been at it for a long time?

I have been at it for a very long time as a hobby. I've only gotten serious about filmmaking in the last 5 years or so.

When I was in the service, stationed overseas in the late 80's is when I caught the bug. But of course I had no idea what I was doing but had access to some pretty good equipment. So all we ever made was skits. I always directed but I always wanted to do more. So I decided to write a script for a feature film. I outlined a very elaborate story. But it never panned out.

I came back to the states and began raising the family (my 1st was born in '88 in Germany) and never gave the film industry a thought of making a career. I started on a string of good jobs with bad companies that took all of my time. Then around '95 I moved back to Texas and got a very good job with a very good company that gave me plenty of time to start thinking about filmmaking again. I decided the story I had back in Germany was still relevant I began pouring over my notes and rewriting. I didn't finish a draft until '97.

I knew the movie was way too huge for me to try to do my self and I knew (deep down inside) it wasn't good enough to try to sell. So I began the long string of writing low budget scripts that I was going to make my self. I can't even remember how many I wrote but I really learned a lot about writing and now I am actually a pretty good writer. All the while making little short films with my kids and their friends as actors. And no, no one will ever see those films.

But it wasn't till I wrote a script called SONNY MUST FAIL around '02 that I actually really started to think I could make real movies. I started hanging out with the indie filmamkers in the Dallas area and began pitching my ideas to everyone that would listen. I din't think SONNY was going anywhere so I wrote a couple more scripts that I thought would be better sells. Then in '05 I met a producer that really like SONNY and we worked for about a year trying to put that project together. Tey couldn't raise the money and they finally gave up on it. So I showed them my short script for UNGLUED and the decided to make that.

I guess you know the rest of the story.

Hey there Troy,

Are these scripts of yours available somewhere for me to read? I'm keen to check 'em out. If that's okay.

Penelope.

Hey Penelope,

I've got a couple of shorts and 1 feature I'd let you read. The others need too much work for me to send to anyone right now and some are just plain bad.

Send me an email to troyh709@verizon.net and I'll email you back.

Troy

Congats on the baby news Edsas!

Thanks, Seeker!

Long time, no see. What have you been up to?

I got a new job that sadly takes up a lot of my time, just trying to juggle it all and get back on to my forums again.

quote:

Originally posted by Troy:
Hey Penelope,

I've got a couple of shorts and 1 feature I'd let you read. The others need too much work for me to send to anyone right now and some are just plain bad.

Send me an email to troyh709@verizon.net and I'll email you back.

Troy

Hey there Troy,

I'm on it. Just bear with me. It's end of month and being a bookkeeper, I'm snowed in underneath a pile of paperwork. I'll let you know. But thanks heaps the sharing. Hugely appreciated.

Penelope.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Penelope,

Just wrapped production on "The Magic Sofa." It was brutal. I had a great crew though (My script supv really kept me organized). I'm taking a couple of days off to recoup and then it's off to the editing suite. I'll post some screen caps in couple of weeks.

Penelope -

I haven't forgotten about you.

Troy